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Rehan Syed Muhammad
Hi everyone, I'm Rehan Syed from the RIPE NCC. This chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY.  If you have questions for the speaker and you want the session chair to read it out, please write it in the Q&A window stating your name and affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon.
(14:00:32)

Osamah Barakat_396
maybe an external mic would help.
(14:01:16)

Marco Hogewoning_318
go go go :)
(14:01:23)

Kurt Kayser
the Q&A Window asks about setting 3rd party cookies and does not work with my equipment.
(14:01:28)

Aaron Hughes
Good afternoon
(14:01:33)

Kurt Kayser
"Third-party cookies are disabled in your browser. To join this event, please open Slido in a new tab or see how to enable cookies and then try again"
(14:02:14)

Mirjam Kühne
@Kurt: click on open in a new tab and use RIPE81 as code
(14:02:31)
at least that worked for me
(14:02:46)

Kurt Kayser
@Mirjam: magic.. thanks
(14:03:27)

Gert Döring
I like the idea of blocking DoH
(14:03:28)

Mirjam Kühne
great
(14:03:40)
(to Kurt :-))
(14:03:46)

Olivier Benghozi
yeah, we prefer DoHTTP/3
(14:03:55)

Marco Hogewoning_318
add an extension header to QUIC and be done :P
(14:04:41)

Aaron Hughes
hahahah bad Marco
(14:04:56)

Julf Helsingius
heh
(14:05:10)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
Well, claim to implement all those things but in reality there is not much.
(14:09:20)

Marco d'Itri
Paul: so that laws can be ignored for friends and enforced for enemies?
(14:09:51)

Maksym Tuliev
There is only one way: they have to implement whitelists, not blacklist. And they do.
(14:10:18)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
Marco: the law is only applied to political ennemies.
(14:10:52)

Maksym Tuliev
Paul: the problem is there are all enemies for them, no friends at all.
(14:11:24)

Kurt Kayser
So encryption goes from privacy to illegal actity? That's not good.
(14:11:49)

Bengt Gördén
Kurt. Spot on.
(14:12:06)

Maksym Tuliev
If you have something to hide - you are bad (illegal) guy! That's simple.
(14:12:28)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
Maksym: I disagree, social inertia is strong in ex-soviet countries.
(14:12:29)
Much stronger than in western Europe.
(14:12:44)

Maksym Tuliev
Paul: yes, that's the root...
(14:12:54)

Marco Hogewoning_318
Remember back in the days when for instance FR had issues with 128bit encryption, this isn't new
(14:12:57)

Brian Nisbet
Other governments try this kind of thing all the time. In different places it's easier to push back.
(14:13:15)

Julf Helsingius
Yes, they all try.
(14:13:53)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
So even when the government violates their own laws and constitutions, most providers will follow the orders.
(14:13:56)

Marco Hogewoning_318
right now it is happening in a lot of places at the same time, makes it much harder to push back
(14:13:59)

Maksym Tuliev
And the main thng all that censorship does not work for their main purpose.
(14:14:08)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
But the Russian government is asking too much, and because it cost money then people may complain.
(14:14:25)

Maksym Tuliev
Egypt, Tunisia, Belorussia - Internet outage just does not work ;)
(14:14:40)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Paul, they don't care about complaints
(14:14:44)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
Maksym, well if they cut off the country from the rest of the world, it will actually work.
(14:15:03)

Taras Heichenko
Censorship works for their real aims but the declared.
(14:15:08)

Maksym Tuliev
Paul: no. Revolutions are thousands of years with us.
(14:15:41)

Eric van Uden
Can we Push back? I don´t think so. See also the EuroPol report
(14:15:42)

Blake Willis
"old regualtory approaches" comment also applies to "trust-busting"
(14:15:51)
excellent talk Maxim
(14:17:41)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
I think we can summarize this presentation by just saying that Moscow wants to copy Beijing. :)
(14:18:02)

Blake Willis
the two situations are comparable but nonetheless quite different
(14:18:52)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
But they don't want to spend a penny for building the censorship infrastructure
(14:18:59)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
They want operators to pay for it. :P
(14:19:12)

Marco Hogewoning_318
can take it to the list
(14:19:45)

Paul Boissel Dombreval
Let's remember that both Ukraine and Russia have in their constitutions "Censorship is forbidden".
(14:19:50)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
well, this is a nice approach: you've build the network, and now you're building filtering nodes inside your network
(14:19:53)

Marco Hogewoning_318
we can respond in more detail there
(14:20:00)

Taras Heichenko
China started earlier so there is much more easier to control external channels.
(14:20:05)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Guys, are you missing the audio queue?
(14:20:09)

Brian Nisbet
Alexander is trying to ask a question?
(14:20:11)
In the audio queue.
(14:20:16)

Alexander Isavnin
Ok, RIPE NCC censors Russians ;)
(14:20:53)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Don't be confused with RIPE/RIPE NCC
(14:21:10)
:)
(14:21:12)

Julf Helsingius
yes, didn't see audio queue, sorry
(14:21:16)

Alexander Isavnin
Sorry, coop WG chairs ;)
(14:21:30)

Jan Zorz
maybe you can ask at the end of a session :)
(14:21:37)

Maxim Burtikov
also, the latest EU regulation update is now up on RIPE Labs - https://labs.ripe.net/Members/suzan…93ad27afc4ed71ec6543fc0d8d99d8367df
(14:21:52)

Brian Nisbet
Julf, you're still broadcasting audio.
(14:21:54)
:)
(14:22:10)

Julf Helsingius
Thanks, Brian - I know my keyboard is loud :)
(14:22:22)

Maxim Burtikov
and a RU regulatory update to compliment my presentation will be published shortly on RIPE Labs
(14:22:26)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Max, is the EU regulation compulsory or the national legislation should be amendment by the lawmakers?
(14:24:04)
amended
(14:24:14)

Rehan Syed Muhammad
Hi Sergey Myasoedov_217, please write your question in the Q&A panel (icon with question mark) or please wait until the end of the talk and ask your question using audio. Thank you!
(14:24:38)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Rehan: nope, this is question for the chat
(14:24:57)

Jan Zorz
huh... another new acronym :) IWN
(14:24:57)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
a stock symbol? :)
(14:26:11)

Bengt Gördén
Integrated Wireless Network, I Would Never?
(14:27:39)

Blake Willis
this is a great talk
(14:27:45)
very useful for explaining to management types why we do things the way we do
(14:28:03)

Chris Buckridge
hi Sergey - not sure I'm understanding your question, but different EU policies have different approaches - some need to be enforced consistently across the entire Union, some are implemented on a state-by-state basis
(14:28:33)
(GDPR is the former; NIS Directive is an example of the latter)
(14:29:10)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Chris, just wondering if the EU's policies are applied directly or should be implemented by each member separately
(14:29:26)

Marco Hogewoning_318
The EU lingo is regulation=effective immediately, directive=requires transposition in national law
(14:29:49)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
Thank you for your answer!
(14:29:49)

Chris Buckridge
👍
(14:29:57)

Marco Hogewoning_318
but often enforcement is still national; e.g. GDPR(egulation), it is still to the national competent authority to enforce
(14:30:55)
(Let me tick the box saying "it's complicated"
(14:31:21)

Sergey Myasoedov_217
well, national GPDR is a supplement, isn't it?
(14:31:33)

Suzanne Taylor
Great initiative on the part of ISOC
(14:31:45)

Marco Hogewoning_318
GDPR as a rulebook is universal across all 27 member states, no deviations or implementations there
(14:32:13)
but is a complex beast
(14:32:30)

Blake Willis
thanks for the clarification
(14:32:34)

Marco Hogewoning_318
so let's leave it there
(14:32:40)
recommend switching to gallery, we won't be using slides
(14:34:42)

Kurt Kayser
@Marco: what a different look! :-)
(14:34:51)

Jelte Jansen
indeed :)
(14:35:02)

Marco Hogewoning_318
I painted my office indeed :)
(14:35:14)

Matthias Hudobnik
hipster style :-)
(14:35:37)

Hervé Clement
@ Marco: I have not recognized you immediately !
(14:36:08)

Blake Willis
lookin' good Marco!
(14:36:27)

Eric van Uden
Enough Marco, Your hair is OK now ;-)
(14:36:30)

Matthias Hudobnik
haaha
(14:36:40)

Julf Helsingius
There seems to have been a rush to barbers here in NL as people are expecting a lockdown...
(14:38:08)

Gert Döring
you are still not locked away`
(14:45:50)

Kledi Andoni
👏 👏
(14:46:35)

Mirjam Kühne
good debate
(14:47:10)

Marco Hogewoning_318
thx
(14:47:35)

Eric van Uden
Nice talk. We have enough history that learned that companies are not moving forward without pressure from regulators.
(14:47:50)

Andrei Robachevsky
who's talking?
(14:48:11)

avri doria
very interesting
(14:48:11)

Bengt Gördén
Who's speaking?
(14:48:26)

Julf Helsingius
maxim
(14:48:28)

Chris Buckridge
this is MAxim, Andrei
(14:48:29)

Bengt Gördén
Ah
(14:48:36)
thanx
(14:48:38)

Andrei Robachevsky
thx
(14:48:39)

Taras Heichenko
You may see who is talking in the Participants List tab.
(14:49:16)

Jan Zorz
interesting thought... not deploying IPv6 would mean breaking the net neutrality... intriguing :)
(14:49:23)

Taras Heichenko
Jan: And deploying would mean the same. ;)
(14:49:56)

Mohsen Souissi
@Peter, @Marco: Having an efficient Self-Governance (inside the RIRs community) is to some extent a form of "Regulating the Regulators"
(14:50:02)

Jan Zorz
Taras: so, a Schroedinger's IPv6 :)
(14:50:22)

James Blessing
more like "herding the regulators"
(14:50:24)

Peter Koch
point taken, Daniel, thanks
(14:50:34)

Niall O'Reilly
What Daniel said!
(14:50:38)

Andrei Robachevsky
A big +1 to Daniel
(14:50:53)

Taras Heichenko
Jan: yah! :)
(14:51:00)

Alexander Isavnin
My question was not about RIPE NCC "Consultations" It was about RIPE response
(14:51:02)

Kurt Kayser
thanks- interesting times
(14:51:20)

Kledi Andoni
the internet is above politics! neo-dictatorships are the ones who want to regulate and control the internet
(14:51:58)

Jury Bogdanov
bravo Alexander
(14:52:32)

Blake Willis
(plenty of "digital stupidity" in EU too :-)
(14:52:36)

Rehan Syed Muhammad
This session has now ended. The next session is Measurements and Tools Working Group and it will start at 15:00 CET. More info on the RIPE 81 meeting plan: https://ripe81.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/
(14:52:43)